By ELIZABETH FERSZT
Contributing Writer
Joseph O’Rourke was in 4th Circuit Court on Nov. 18 for a Motion Hearing for Other Acts Evidence with his attorney, Lucas X. Dillon, Assistant Prosecutor Nathan Hull, and Hon. John McBain, presiding.
Dillon is arguing a self-defense defense for his client in the murder of Emarion Flowers, who was shot and killed on May 16 in the SouthRidge Park Apts. on Warwick Circle in the City of Jackson,
He said O’Rourke was in fear for his life because Flowers was a “known gang member” and was also known to carry a weapon when in the gang turf — the area surrounding and including the SouthRidge Apartment complex located on MLK at Franklin Street in Jackson.
Dillon asked the court to allow Nathan Gross, a retired law enforcement officer from Jackson, as an expert witness in his client’s defense. In such a motion, the expert’s experience is considered and whether he has specific knowledge or just common knowledge like about gang terms such as, “they had a beef” or “they carry” or “their turf.”
“Does the jury know what that means?” Dillon asked. “I don’t want to leave it up to a jury to try to figure it out. I want to help them understand,” Dillon said.
Dillon called Gross and proceeded to show him as a general expert in gang violence and gang behavior, and a specific expert in how gangs operate in Jackson. While at JPD, Gross worked in the SWOT unit; the Undercover Concentrated Response Against Crime team; the LawNet (War on Drugs including gangs from Mexico) team; and the Homicide and Cold Case Investigation team.
Gross admitted that he had “been off the streets now for about 13 years.” He does not know about the Thoroughbred Family Gang from Jackson. Members of TFG were sentenced to lengthy prison terms by a federal court in Detroit earlier this year.
Dillon mentioned the 5630 Gang affiliated with 2nd Street in Jackson — allegedly they are a “known offshoot of the TFG,” said Dillon. The deceased victim, Flowers was allegedly associated with the 5630.
In response, Judge McBain asked, “Is your client a known gang member too?”
“Yes,” Dillon said.
“Will that be admissible?” McBain said.
“Yes,” Dillon said, and added that the name of the gang is “Wo-World” (unclear as to spelling).
After McBain swore in Gross, Dillon established his expertise with Jackson gangs. “How would you define a gang?” Dillon asked.
“In Jackson it’s more like a crew — it’s family affiliated, in order to join the gang, they have to get beat into the gang to show their commitment,” Gross responded.
“How is gang turf enforced?” — Dillon asked.
“They’ll tag it [spray graffiti] to show it’s theirs” — Gross stated.
“Why is that important?”—Dillon asked.
“Because it’s theirs” — Gross said.
“They also just pop [shoot] into the air and see what happens” — Gross added.
“We actually had a book [with gang member names]” and their nicknames, Gross explained, as a way that JPD had to keep track of gang activity and players. “They also wear certain clothes, like wearing red [pants or shirts], and their hat to the side,” Gross said.
Upon cross-examination, Hull tried to frame Gross’s experience as dated. “This is a very impressive resume,” Hull stated. “But you don’t have any gang training now?”
“Not in the last 13 years,” Gross said.
“You have no knowledge with gang activity as it exists today of the local gangs in Jackson?” Hull continued.
“No,” Gross said.
“You don’t know Wo World?” asked Hull.
“No,” Gross said.
In referencing the book, Hull asked, “It was important to have that book updated?”
“Correct,” said Gross.
Hull stated that Gross did not know the “Federal definition of gangs vs. local definition of gangs,” based on his lack of current training.
On his re-direct, Dillon asked Gross, “Gangs have to evolve, right — for example they rely more on cell phones today?”
Gross agreed, but added, “Here [in Jackson] they react totally different than in Ann Arbor or Ypsilanti or Detroit. If you jumped out [of a police vehicle] and took their colors (like a bandana) from them — they’d fight back.”
“But in Jackson, they would just say, ‘Man you can’t do that,’ and have a conversation with police, and just walk away,” Gross explained.
Hull argued that Gross is not an expert per MRE 702 — because he does not have the current, expert experience required by 702.
Dillon argued that “every single element of 702 is met” — Gross can provide the jury with general info about gang behavior, not necessarily about 5630 or Wo World gangs — “I’m not asking that.”
In the end, McBain ruled in favor of O’Rourke and Dillon, allowing Nathan Gross to be an Expert Witness under the ‘702 rules’— which are flexible. “702 is multi-faceted,” said McBain — it is designed to “help the trier of facts” (i.e. the jury). McBain also said that Gross has a “good deal of basic knowledge” about gangs — in explaining general things like ‘beef’ or ’turf.’
The parties will meet again on Friday, Dec. 5, at 1:30 pm for a continued Pre Trial Conference, including four new videos (allegedly of Emarion Flowers rapping on YouTube), that Dillon wants allowed in as evidence. Hull said that he had not seen them yet. And that he may also try to certify his own expert witness. March 16, 2026 is the date set for the trial, with a final PTC in late January.
Outside the courtroom, attorney Dillon stated that the next steps are to get a Bond Modification for his client — right now he has not been offered any bond by the court. “He’s going nuts in there [jail],” Dillon said of O’Rourke. “He needs to be let out, he has no record.”
